Attacks in Mumbai - over 80 dead

[peaceman]

Attacks going on in Mumbai, an explosion just occurred in the Maj hotel, as well as shootings. Apparently the terrorists in the Maj hotel are holding hostages.


:cen:

[admin]

Yikes, I just turned on CNN, its all over the news. Could be mostly foreigners killed. ALso reports of gunfire in the Marriot hotel. :(

[Ruggedtouch]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27928718?GT1=43001

An organization calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen sent an e-mail to news organizatrions claiming responsibility for the attacks. The motive was not immediately clear but Mumbai has frequently been targeted in terror attacks, including a series of blasts in July 2007 that killed 187 people.


Fundamentalist Presbyterians are the culprits, no doubt.

[Jonathan]

Its up to 87 now.

Uterrly pointless.

[Ruggedtouch]

Its up to 87 now.

Uterrly pointless.


It’s dangerous to dismiss these calculated mass murders as “pointless�. They’re not pointless at all. Rather, they’re undertaken with clear and identifiable connections to religious convictions.

Any attempt to at divest the religion from the crimes committed in it’s furtherance collapses upon its assertion. The explicit motivations expressed by those of islamic politico-religious belief has everything to do with the motivations that cause Moslems to wantonly murder their fellow human beings or to immolate themselves while purposefully slaughtering innocent women and children in a fireball of shrapnel.

You seek to defer responsibility from those who chose a specific action, calculated to inflict as much damage and death as possible. It’s important to ask what motivates someone to fly a jetliner into a building or to coordinate attacks for the purpose of mass murder and destroy themselves while attempting to maim or destroy innocent civilians. I suggest the answer to that question is:

1.) the religious convictions throbbing away and,

2. Indoctrination in a belief that paradise awaits in the afterlife. The decision was taken consciously and with explicit calculation to bypass non-violence in their actions. Many, many other peoples have desperate circumstances but do not resort to mass murder/suicide to try to alleviate them. I’m sure we’ll hear of these Islamic terrorists making the same worn out excuses about “persecution�, but you know what – if you want to see real persecution, try being a Jew or Christian in any moslem majority nation.

Are you at all curious as to why we don’t see Jews running into crowds of moslem civilians every day to explode into a fiery ball of bone shards, shrapnel, and soft tissue for YHVH, and why we don’t see Christians videotaping themselves as they cut off the head of a bound and living Muslim while maniacally yelling: Jesus is great! Jesus is the greatest! There’s a reason why every draconian Levitical law is not painstakingly adhered to by all by all pious Jews and Christians.

Muslims the world over whine and seethe over how they are supposedly persecuted and under threat from the infidel. In light of how Christian and other minorities fare where Islam prevails, a little self-examination might be in order.

[Shine_On]

Its still going on over a day since it started. The commandos are still fighting the terrorists. Its insane to think they just started shooting people on the street. Its awful.


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2008/11/27/1227777495131/Gallery-Mumbai-terror-att-010.jpg


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2008/11/27/1227777496823/Gallery-Mumbai-terror-att-011.jpg

[admin]

ITs actually only over now.

Unbelievable - they literally just started shooting people in the street.

[peaceman]

147 so far, probably as many injured again. SHocking.

Looks like India and Pakistan are getting into a war of words over this. Suggestions from the Indian foreign minister that a lot of the terrorists were from Pakistan. Both are nuclear armed nations...

[admin]

India blamed the strike on "elements" from Pakistan, raising tensions between the nuclear-armed rivals. Pakistan said the two countries faced a common enemy and it would send a representative of its spy agency to share intelligence.

The militants' action has struck at the heart of the city of 18 million people, engine room of an economic boom that has made India a favourite emerging market.

It is also home to the "Bollywood" film industry, the epitome of glamour in a country still blighted by poverty.

An Indian state minister said one of the militants arrested was a Pakistani national and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh warned of "a cost" if India's neighbours did not take action to stop their territory being used to launch attacks.

From: Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKTRE4AP74420081129?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0)

I hope the Pakistan government or elements in the government aren't behind this. Its distratrous for both countries if they can't improve relations. Too much poverty to fix, besides historical rivalries.

[Ruggedtouch]

It’s really stating the obvious that British Muslims have become a mainstay of the global 'jihad'. We’ve all seen the reports of the poisonous hatreds spewed by the sheiks, clerics, imams and prayer leaders that are such a part of Britain.

If the people of the free world, or at least Americans, are genuinely willing to stem the tide of jihad's barbarism from washing farther up the shore of civilization, the chief purveyors of poisonous Islamosupremacist ideology must be destroyed. There is little time left to prevent massive loss of life, and the ethical tenability for a position of inaction and appeasement is nil.

What's it going to take, Brits? How bad does it have to get before a.) an honest admission of multiculturalism's abysmal failure is made and b.) an honest effort is made to defend the simple Western values embodied in liberty, justice and democracy? Your "youth" population doesn't get it, nor does it want to get it.

British Muslims have become a mainstay of the global 'jihad'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/british-muslims-have-become-a-mainstay-of-the-global-jihad-1040232.html

More than 4,000 British Muslims have passed through terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan, according to security agencies, providing a fertile recruitment pool for the Islamist international jihad.

Men from the UK's Kashmiri community have joined groups such as Lashkar-e-Toiba, the prime suspects in the Mumbai attacks, which have been fighting against Indian forces in Kashmir. Others from a Pakistani background are in the ranks of the Taliban and other groups taking part in action against British and Nato forces in Afghanistan.

A former commander of the British force in Helmand, Brigadier Ed Butler, has revealed that his troops had come across British Muslims in southern Afghanistan. "There are British passport holders who live in the UK who are being found in places such as Kandahar," he said. "There is a link between Kandahar and urban conurbations in the UK. This is something the military understands, but the British public does not."

[admin]

Question: Should we also kick most of the Northern Spanish out of Spain, after all, ETA is spanish, ergo from your argument above, they should be kicked out / destroyed? Or is it that you only want to focus on one particular religion?


MUMBAI (Reuters) - Indian investigators said on Monday the militants who attacked Mumbai underwent months of commando training in Pakistan, raising tensions between the nuclear-armed neighbours as recriminations mounted in India.

Swissinfo.ch (http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/international/India_says_Mumbai_gunmen_trained_in_Pakistan.html? siteSect=143&sid=10035469&cKey=1228129699000&ty=ti)


Other countries need to get involved here to calm tensions down. Condelezza Rice is heading to India soon, she'd maybe do better to visit Pakistan. I find it hard to believe that the Pakistan government would engage in such an atrocity though.

[Ruggedtouch]

In spite of your hoped for attempt to excuse this latest atrocity of islamic terrorism, your "but... but.. but... but look over there" deflection is not working. While you may have missed it, Mumbai is about islamic terrorism.

Mumbai terrorists were 'fundedÂ* by cash raised in UK mosques'

By Mail On Sunday Reporter

Last updated at 12:19 AM on 30th November 2008


A banned Islamic terrorist group funded with cash raised in British mosques is believed to be behind the Mumbai attacks.

Kashmiri separatists Lashkar-e-Taiba, The Army of the Righteous’, which has strong links to Al Qaeda, is accused of previous terrorist outrages in India.

And intercepted telephone and radio communications before and during the latest attacks apparently suggest a link.
Uh oh. Let's not jump to conclusions about the peaceful inner struggle.â„¢

British values are the same values shared by all free societies: equality, individual rights, pluralism, and freedom of conscience. Islam embodies none of these values. Of course, the apologists know this. To obfuscate this plain reality, though, they conflate a dishonest myth of Islamic tolerance with the Western folly of multiculturalism, and then sell this reason-debilitating admixture to the willing quasi-dhimmis.

And what can these lovely people offer the world except the rampant abuse of human rights, anti-Semitism, religious intolerance, violent Islamic terror, economic stagnation, illiteracy, gender apartheid, and corrupt totalitarian regimes which are routine in the Arab/moslem world and are thought to be required in the west?



Okay Infidels, let's all open our Eurocratic Dhimmitude primers and review, shall we? White, Christian people of European descent are inferior, barbaric warmongers who oppress the noble holy warriorsâ„¢ of Islam.

Islam is the Religion of Peaceâ„¢ and as an advanced civilization, it gave us modern science, sliced bread, canned Tuna and the fair treatment of women. Moslems are beyond reproach, accountability, and criticism. To criticize moslems is islamophobicâ„¢ , even though Moslems are infidelophobic to the core (after all, we deserve it!).

Moslems are also a race. Hey! No smart aleck common sense questions out of you, Infidels—pay attention!. To criticize moslems is also racist.™

To react in anger after we force the poor, aggrieved peaceful religionists to threaten us in large numbers in our own streets—well, that's definitely islamophobic™ … oh yeah… and probably racist™ too.

'Hate literature easily found at UK mosques'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...nmosques130.xml

By Toby Helm, Chief Political Correspondent

Extremist literature that encourages hatred of gays, Christians and Jews can be easily found at many of Britain's mosques, according to a new survey.

Researchers for the centre-Right think tank Policy Exchange claims it found the literature in a quarter of the 100 mosques and Islamic institutions they visited.

Many of the publications allegedly called on British Muslims to segregate themselves from non-Muslims and for unbelievers to be treated as second-class citizens wherever possible.

The literature also allegedly contained repeated calls for gays to be thrown from mountains and tall buildings and for women to be subjugated.

Policy Exchange said that among the documents were the anti-Semitic forgery, The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, and other publications peddling bizarre conspiracy theories. (I know you all find that as shocking -Shocking- as i do -ed.)

Anthony Browne, the director of Policy Exchange, said: "It is clearly intolerable that hate literature is peddled at some British mosques.

"I am sure the majority of moderate Muslims will be as horrified as everyone else that pamphlets advocating jihad by force, hatred for insufficiently observant Muslims, Christians and Jews, and segregation have found their way into the UK's mosques."

Policy Exchange visited more than 100 mosques and other Islamic institutions and said it found the literature was accessible both openly and "under the counter".

Altogether some 80 books and pamphlets were collected over the course of a year.

Many of the institutions were among the best funded and most active of Britain's 1,500 or so Islamic establishments. In several cases they had received official visits from politicians and even members of the royal family.

Dr Yunes Teinaz, of the London Central Mosque, said: "Any book or literature like this found in the mosque will reflect the views of the author and not at all the view of the mosque." He added that the bookshop in the mosque was not run by the mosque, but was a franchise.

Iqbal Sacranie, a former secretary general of the Muslim Council of Great Britain, criticised the report. He said: "The majority of Muslims will totally dismiss this because it is written by the Policy Exchange, who have an agenda to denigrate the mainstream of Islam in this country.

"If there is any material which falls foul of the law, then the law should take its course. We cannot accept messages of hate - there is zero tolerance on that. But it is irresponsible to target religious texts and take them out of context. These texts can be found not just in mosques but in ordinary bookshops - the report overlooks that."

But... but, isn't Islam the Religion of Peaceâ„¢? Aren't those murder/suicide bombings, head-choppings, car bombings on civilian centers, shootings, and stabbings which happen every single day really just isolated incident that don't represent the real Islamâ„¢?

Well, duh, yeah.

Â*

[Shine_On]

Other countries need to get involved here to calm tensions down. Condelezza Rice is heading to India soon, she'd maybe do better to visit Pakistan. I find it hard to believe that the Pakistan government would engage in such an atrocity though.



Agreed. India has now 'formally' accused 'elements' within Pakistan of carrying out the attacks. Pakistan has countered by denying any state involvement in the attacks.This has the capacity to boil over into a regional conflict that would be awful for the two countries - exactly what the militants want.
The question is if India will resist the urge to launch war against Pakistan. They came within a hairs breath in 2001 after the attack on Parliament, Pakistan needs to be seen to be taking a strong line on the militants that did this.

BTW, when Obama is actually President in January, does that mean that it would be Hillary Clinton that would be sent to these regions as Secretary of State?

[admin]

Yes I think it would be Hillary. Maybe Bill could go with her - he's a real people person! :D

[peaceman]

lol, he's gotta be delighted with all the travel thats coming up!

Anybody think that maybe the attackers were hoping that the new government in Pakistan would be overthown? That more chaos there might allow them to seize greater control with the government in disarray??
After all, a fledgling government fighting to retain office and fighting elections is not going to be focused of fighting fundamentalism. I don't think the government was behind this, but at the same time the Pakistan government need to take a strong line on the group or groups involved.